Saga Math

I’m starting a new Star Wars Saga Edition RPG today. For a change I won’t be the GM which should be fun. But as I was making my character, I kept thinking about the disparity in the game. The gain in Reflex Defense far outways the gain in ability to hit anything.

I’m going to run through some number, looking at attack bonus versus reflex defense at various levels. The character set up I’m using will be at the end if you’re curious.

Level 5 combat character (Att +9/RefDef 24)

Level 5 support character (Att +6/RefDef 19)

Level 10 combat character (Att +16/RefDef 33)

Level 10 support character (Att +10/RefDef 24)

Level 15 combat character (Att +23/RefDef 40)

Level 15 support character (Att +15/RefDef 31)

Same Level Matches

CL5 Combat vs CL 5 Support

• Combat to Hit: 50% (+9 vs RefDef 19)
• Support to Hit: 15% (+6 vs RefDef 24)

CL 5 Combat vs CL 5 Combat

• To Hit: 25% (+9 vs RefDef 24)

CL 10 Combat vs CL 10 Support

• Combat to Hit: 60% (+16 vs RefDef 24)
• Support to Hit: Crit Only (+10 vs RefDef 33)

CL 10 Combat vs CL 10 Combat

• Combat to Hit: 20% (+16 vs RefDef 33)

CL 15 Combat vs CL 15 Support

• Combat to Hit: 60% (+23 vs RefDef 31)
• Support to Hit: Crit Only (+15 vs RefDef 40)

CL 15 Combat vs CL 15 Combat

• Combat to Hit: 20% (+23 vs RefDef 40)

Various Level Matches

CL 5 Combat vs CL 10 Support

• Combat to Hit: 25% (+9 vs RefDef 24)
• Support to Hit: 30% (+10 vs RefDef 24)

CL 10 Combat vs CL 15 Support

• Combat to Hit: 30% (+16 vs RefDef 31)
• Support to Hit: 15% (+15 vs RefDef 33)

CL 5 Combat vs CL 10 Combat

• CL 5 to Hit: Crit Only (+9 vs RefDef 33)
• CL 10 to Hit: 60% (+16 vs RefDef 24)

As you can see, fully tricked out combat characters versus other fully tricked out combat characters of the same level hit each other only 20-25% of the time. Support versus Combat, at the same level start out at only a 15% chance to hit and it drops to requiring Crits only very quickly.  Characters, especially combat characters, Reflex defense gets so high, it can really make combat all about the crits.

Now, out of curiosity, I wondered what it would look like if Reflex Defense bonus only went up at Half Your Level, instead of full level, like it does for skills.

Level 5 combat character (Att +9/RefDef 24)

Level 5 support character (Att +6/RefDef 16)

Level 10 combat character (Att +16/RefDef 28)

Level 10 support character (Att +10/RefDef 19)

Level 15 combat character (Att +23/RefDef 32)

Level 15 support character (Att +15/RefDef 23)

Same Level Matches Version 2

CL5 Combat vs CL 5 Support

• Combat to Hit: 65% (+9 vs RefDef 16)
• Support to Hit: 15% (+6 vs RefDef 24)

CL 5 Combat vs CL 5 Combat

• To Hit: 25% (+9 vs RefDef 24)

CL 10 Combat vs CL 10 Support

• Combat to Hit: 90% (+16 vs RefDef 19)
• Support to Hit: 15% (+10 vs RefDef 28)

CL 10 Combat vs CL 10 Combat

• Combat to Hit: 40% (+16 vs RefDef 28)

CL 15 Combat vs CL 15 Support

• Combat to Hit: 95% (+23 vs RefDef 23)
• Support to Hit: 15% (+15 vs RefDef 32)

CL 15 Combat vs CL 15 Combat

• Combat to Hit: 55% (+23 vs RefDef 32)

Various Level Matches

CL 5 Combat vs CL 10 Support

• Combat to Hit: 50% (+9 vs RefDef 19)
• Support to Hit: 30% (+10 vs RefDef 24)

CL 10 Combat vs CL 15 Support

• Combat to Hit: 70% (+16 vs RefDef 23)
• Support to Hit: 40% (+15 vs RefDef 28)

CL 5 Combat vs CL 10 Combat

• CL 5 to Hit: 10% (+9 vs RefDef 28)
• CL 10 to Hit: 60% (+16 vs RefDef 24)

Now, in one sense, this is better. There are no Crit Only hit chances. However, squishy support characters are more squishy, even getting so high as almost guaranteed hits at same level. Combat would certainly go faster that way. It might be worth trying a one shot game with mid to high level characters, just to see.  It still doesn’t address one problem I have, that low levels, even in greater numbers, have a poor to no chance against high levels. That makes it boring for high levels to always wade through weaker guys and never get hit or fear them. Hard not to meta-game that.

I wonder how it would work if Base Attack Bonus scaled differently as well. Say, combat classes (soldier/jedi) only increased at 3/4 and support at half. So soldiers increase at levels 2,3,4 but no bonus at 1 or 5 and scoundrels got BAB every even level. Or maybe ALL BAB increase at 3/4’s, just combatants gain at levels 1,2,3 but not 4.

I don’t feel like doing anymore math so I’ll just leave that to speculation for now.

Characters Used

Level 5

Combat Focused Character (Soldier 5)

Reflex Defense: 24 = 10 + Dexterity Modifier (3)(Dex 16) + Armor Bonus or CL (8)(Battle Armor) + Class Bonus (1) + Feat/Talents (2)(Imp Defenses, Martial Arts 1)

Attack: 9 = BAB (5)+ Dex/Str Mod (3) (Dex/Str 16) + Feats (1) (Weapon Focus)

Support Character (Scoundrel 5)

Reflex Defense: 19 = 10 + Dexterity Modifier (2)(Dex 14) + Armor Bonus or CL (5) + Class Bonus (2)+ Feat/Talents (0)

Attack: 6 = BAB (3)  + Dex/Str Mod (2) (Dex/Str 14) + Feats (1) (PB Shot)

Level 10

Combat Focused Character (Soldier 7/Gunslinger 1/Elite Trooper 2)

Reflex Defense: 33 = 10 + Dexterity Modifier (3)(Dex 17) + Armor Bonus or CL (14)(Battle Armor w/Imp Armor Defense) + Class Bonus (4) + Feat/Talents (2)(Imp Defenses, Martial Arts 1)

Attack: 16 = BAB (10) + Dex/Str Mod (3) (Dex/Str 17) + Feats (3) (Imp Weapon Focus, PB Shot)

Support Character (Scoundrel 7/Saboteur 3)

Reflex Defense: 24 = 10 + Dexterity Modifier (2)(Dex 15) + Armor Bonus or CL (10) + Class Bonus (2)(Scoundrel) + Feat/Talents (0)

Attack: 10 = BAB (7)+ Dex/Str Mod (2) (Dex/Str 15) + Feats (1) (PB Shot)

Level 15

Combat Focused Character (Soldier 7/Gunslinger 3/Elite Trooper 5)

Reflex Defense: 40 = 10 + Dexterity Modifier (4)(Dex 18) + Armor Bonus or CL (19)(Battle Armor w/Imp Armor Defense) + Class Bonus (4) + Feat/Talents (3)(Imp Defenses, Martial Arts 1/2)

Attack: 23 = BAB (15) + Dex/Str Mod (4) (Dex/Str 18) + Feats (4) (Imp Weapon Focus, PB Shot, 1 other)

Support Character (Scoundrel 7/Saboteur 8 )

Reflex Defense: 31 = 10 + Dexterity Modifier (3)(Dex 16) + Armor Bonus or CL (15) + Class Bonus (2)(Scoundrel) + Feat/Talents (1) (Random)

Attack: 15 = BAB (11)+ Dex/Str Mod (3) (Dex/Str 16) + Feats (1) (PB Shot)

Note (7/25/11): Corrected a mistake in the calculation of the level 15 support characters Reflex Defense.